Neo-Quenya Wiki talk:Requests for translation

Culture
I'll start right now. I didn't find an appropriate translation. Can anyone give a clue? Iron gollum 13:40, May 12, 2010 (UTC)
 * How about haimë 'habit'? Sindarin haew with the same stem also means 'custom'.--Bellenion 14:11, May 12, 2010 (UTC)

Dealing with -isms
I am not very sure about such "-isms", e.g. "humanism". I see following possibilities for such cases: I don't like the option 4. because of type III and also because -sm- is not a valid consonant combination in Quenya. For me, 2 and 3 are the options which I cannot decide between. 3 is longer but more precise, 2 is shorter, but I am afraid of ambiguous neologisms later. What do you think? Iron gollum 12:01, May 15, 2010 (UTC)
 * 1) Adding a word for "center" at the end of the respective stem. For "humanism": firyendë or firyatólë.
 * 2) Using the ending -sta ("system of sth." according to Renk): firyasta.
 * 3) Using a combination of both: firyatolësta.
 * 4) Leaving the word untranslated: humanismë.

I'd vote for 3. It is longer, but I think to have ambiguous neologisms later would be an even bigger problem. Last Waterbender 12:19, May 15, 2010 (UTC)
 * While I prefer either 2) or 3), i favour -endë as the later Quenya form to -tólë. So 'humanism' could be 'firyendesta' for me.--Bellenion 19:19, May 15, 2010 (UTC)
 * I guess firyendesta does sound better than firyatolësta. Last Waterbender 13:32, May 16, 2010 (UTC)

Democracy / republic
I would like to put here my question about the word "republic". Bellenion introduced it as lievë ardar. The problem ist that the word "democracy", if translated literally, would mean exactly the same. But I think we should distinguish between the both, not only because the two words are quite different in the meaning, but also because otherwise it will be a huge mess, if we are going to translate toponims like "Democratic People's Republic of Korea" — Lievë ardavëa Lievë Lievë ardar Korëo (sic!). Iron gollum 13:53, May 14, 2010 (UTC)
 * Someone has come up with lietúrië for 'democracy' (by Kai MacTane).--Bellenion 04:00, May 17, 2010 (UTC)
 * That's good. Can we then take liearda for "republic" instead of two words? What do you think? Iron gollum 06:50, May 17, 2010 (UTC)
 * It's fine for me.--Bellenion 07:12, May 17, 2010 (UTC)
 * It's fine for me.--Bellenion 07:12, May 17, 2010 (UTC)

Union
Iron gollum 14:45, May 14, 2010 (UTC)

Which kind of union do you mean? Is it as in Soviet Union or just the act of joining things together? Last Waterbender 12:12, May 15, 2010 (UTC)


 * I mean the "Soviet Union" or "European Union". Iron gollum 13:07, May 15, 2010 (UTC)
 * Sindarin has erthad 'union', so perhaps a Neo Quenya *erta- 'to unite' and *ertië 'union', and thus Európo Ertië and Sovieto Ertië.--Bellenion 03:42, May 17, 2010 (UTC)


 * I like it very much, but would the Sindarin th not sound like Þ in Quenya (in which case it would be ersië with a thule)? Or there is no rule about that? Iron gollum 06:50, May 17, 2010 (UTC)
 * No. Sindarin ertha- should be derived from OS *ertʰa wherein the final ta is a PE verbal ending (some of which have causative meaning). So Quenya would have *erta- instead of *ersa-.--Bellenion 07:12, May 17, 2010 (UTC)

No one
Maybe I am looking up at wrong places, but I can't find an expression for "no one" (like "no one knows"). Iron gollum 09:22, June 21, 2010 (UTC)

How about úqueni 'without people' or úmo 'without anyone'? Last Waterbender 10:29, June 21, 2010 (UTC)
 * I have adopted alaquen for "nobody".--Bellenion 10:48, June 21, 2010 (UTC)

Destroy
I'm trying to say "destroy the Ring" but I can't find a word for destroy. 219.79.51.3 14:36, June 21, 2010 (UTC)

Sorry, that was me. Last Waterbender 14:38, June 21, 2010 (UTC)

I've been thinking of atalanta, derived from atalantëa "ruinous", atalantë "collapse" and lanta- "fall". Is it appropriate? Or can anyone find a better translation? Last Waterbender 16:39, June 21, 2010 (UTC)
 * How about nancar- (undo, destroy)? Iron gollum 21:26, June 21, 2010 (UTC)
 * Oh! I didn't see that in the list. Yes, nancar- is perfect, thanks. Last Waterbender 08:16, June 22, 2010 (UTC)

Energy
I need a good proposal for energy in a physical sense... Would like to write more about physics. Iron gollum 16:41, May 31, 2010 (UTC)
 * Why not just use "power" for "energy"?Bellenion 01:42, June 1, 2010 (UTC)


 * Power is a different physical subject, it should not be confused with energy. Iron gollum 16:01, June 1, 2010 (UTC)
 * It's just like "data", "information", and "knowledge" come with different definitions in the field of Information Technology or Management of Information System, but it's hard for us to find all the counterparts in Quenya.--Bellenion 16:24, June 1, 2010 (UTC)


 * Ther's quite a difference. "Data" and "information" are somewhat similar terms, while "power" and "energy" mean very distinct subjects, which are, at the same time, often used in the same context. But I found something: "energy" is Greek for "activity". For "active", we have vecca, so what about veccië? Iron gollum 18:07, June 1, 2010 (UTC)
 * Hmm... I mean, for instance, when "data", "information", and "knowledge" could be cognized as similar meanings for common people or in common usage, they are totally different concepts in the study of MIS, say ista as "knowledge" to be referred to "data" and "information" also, it's very weird to state a definition sentence like this in Quenya: "ista (knowledge) is the application of "ista" (data) and "ista" (information), while "ista" (information) is the useful "ista" (data) processed already." Just like "energy" and "power" or "strength", which could sometimes be interchangeable in some common circumstances, but in physics, they are totally different. And so here could be one of the biggest problems that there are too many similar cases like this one which Tolkien didn't invent or even didn't think necessary to invent, and some of them can be substituted with the other similar terms while in daily talk, but it's a big headache when we have to explain the definitions of each term in any specific field of study.
 * Turn back to your inquiry, my personal opinion is to leave veccië as a special term in the study of physics, and replace it with tuo "strength" in other common circumstances. How about your idea?--Bellenion 02:21, June 2, 2010 (UTC)
 * Yes, keeping veccië as a purely scientific term was my original idea. In mundane speech, tuo is better, but for physics, let us leave this one. Iron gollum 08:52, June 2, 2010 (UTC)
 * Personally I don't really like the idea of translating even the scientific terms as that would bring a lot of confusion. But since this is Neo-Quenya Wiki then I guess translating them is necessary. Anyway, I agree with leaving special terms for science related articles, because it really is hard to translate all existing scientific terms into Quenya. My suggestion is to translate the terms like heat or energy, that is terms that we use too in daily speech only in a different way. But for the the very specialized terms like the names of chemical elements, we can just transcribe them, or for the cases of names that include consonant groups not allowed in Quenya, like elements ending with ium (ending with m is not allowed), we should just leave them untranscribed. Last Waterbender 05:42, June 2, 2010 (UTC)
 * Well, this is the hard qustion, what is better: keeping Latin or Greek terms where they are used in, say, English, or translating them all the way. In natural languages, xenologisms are adopted when the community of native speakers suddently faces a radically new concept. For example, the word "computer" is used as an anglicism in most languages of European origin, so one could believce that, if Quendi existed in modern times, they would have had adopted the word, too, possibly adapting it to their language. But then, again, there are the French who use the translated term "ordinateur". And, again, there are the Russians who tried to call computers "electronical computational machines", which was then replaced by "computers" because the former was simply too long and bulky.
 * So there is no perfect solution, which is also severed by the fact that Tolkien, as Bellenion mentioned, didn't bother about inventing scientific and technical terms for Quenya (and, truly, inventing a word for computer while the language is set in a fantasy world would be very crazy). My opinion is that we should try to translate scientific terms as far as possible. As for chemical elements, there are some which are translateable (and translated in many languages) like hydrogen, but for those where this is not the case, we should, logically, keep to the Latin names. Concerning -ium — why not turn this to -iumë? Iron gollum 08:52, June 2, 2010 (UTC)
 * So helium would become heliumë. Then what about beryllium? Should it be turned to perylliumë? Last Waterbender 17:02, June 2, 2010 (UTC)
 * Yes, I think so. Even if some would opt for translating "helium" (since it is referred to the Sun), heliumë sounds good to me. Beryllium would be verilliumë, I suppose. Iron gollum 17:37, June 2, 2010 (UTC)
 * I think it's best to keep helium heliumë and the Sun Anar. Verilliumë looks understandable I think, it is quite different from beryllium. But we'll keep the chemical symbols, right? Last Waterbender 05:25, June 3, 2010 (UTC)
 * Of course, the symbols are scientific standards. After all, in English, it is "sodium" and "Na", too. Iron gollum 09:27, June 3, 2010 (UTC)

Positive / Negative charge
I'm trying to finish the page on atoms, but obviously without these two terms I can't do much at all. Can someone lend a hand translating them? Last Waterbender 16:45, June 14, 2010 (UTC)
 * The "charge" is simple, which we may well say cólo 'burden'. Regarding the "positive" and the "negative" in electronical sense, I tend to say porotono cólo "proton's charge" and celumëo cólo "electron's charge" respectively. We may also think from the latest definition of the two terms, and so would get cólo hyellenen (vitreous electrification, or "charge by glass") and cólo warindonen (resinous electrification, or "charge by rubber").--Bellenion 18:07, June 17, 2010 (UTC)

I think it's better to say 'proton's charge' and 'electron's charge' for positive and negative charge respectively. And are you proposing celumë for electron? Why? Last Waterbender 09:31, June 20, 2010 (UTC)
 * I have cited the referential source in the "List of neologism". Pls check Elfling 2260 for the proposal by BP Jonsson.--Bellenion 10:39, June 20, 2010 (UTC)
 * Oh, I see. I changed it in the atomë article. Last Waterbender 11:31, June 21, 2010 (UTC)

Theory
...from ancient Greek theoria, θεωρία, meaning "a looking at, viewing, beholding". I would favor a derivative of olos (vision), maybe *olosië? Any counter-voices?


 * Olosië seems good to me, for theoria. Actually, can you tell me exactly how you want to use the word? Last Waterbender 08:32, October 3, 2010 (UTC)


 * I am now adding some more text into the article about physics, and I need a word for a physical theory (and/or theoretical physics). Iron gollum 21:11, October 3, 2010 (UTC)
 * How about a derivative of sanwë thought, or perhaps from sav- believe? But if you prefer olosië it's fine by me :) Last Waterbender 11:41, October 5, 2010 (UTC)
 * This is a good idea, but I would prefer to reserve this one for "hypothesis". Iron gollum 19:51, October 6, 2010 (UTC)
 * Ok. Actually now that I think of it, sanwë really does seem to fit hypothesis more. Last Waterbender 03:38, October 7, 2010 (UTC)
 * Fine, issue fixed :) Iron gollum 08:06, October 7, 2010 (UTC)