Talk:Cemië

I couldn't find a suitable word for 'properties', so I used haimë 'habit' instead. Can anyone find a better word?

Neologisms:

cemievëa - chemical (adj.)

ahtarië (pl. ahtarier) - reaction

I'm open to any better suggestions. Last Waterbender 17:11, May 24, 2010 (UTC)


 * How about arma — "possessions, goods, property" (VT45:14)? It seems that it rather means material possesions, but the very word "property" is familiar with this meaning, and so it does in many European languages.Iron gollum 19:29, May 24, 2010 (UTC)
 * I guess arma can be used, but doesn't properties in chemistry mean something more like characteristic or behaviour? Last Waterbender 07:06, May 25, 2010 (UTC)
 * Then we have lengë 'gesture, characteristic look, gesture or trait etc.'--Bellenion 08:38, May 25, 2010 (UTC)


 * Bull's eye, I think :) Iron gollum 13:21, May 25, 2010 (UTC)
 * Yes, I think lengë will do. Last Waterbender 15:05, May 25, 2010 (UTC)

I'm thinking atom should be turned to ''atomë. Last Waterbender 10:22, June 4, 2010 (UTC)''

Element names
I think it will be necessary to create a new periodic table for this article because a lot (actually almost all) of the element names will have to be transcribed into Quenya. So the table should probably include the Latin names as well as the transcribed names. What do you think? Last Waterbender 05:31, June 3, 2010 (UTC)
 * Latin names? I think that symbols would be enough. Iron gollum 09:28, June 3, 2010 (UTC)
 * All right then. Last Waterbender 10:01, June 3, 2010 (UTC)
 * Should we include the elements Ununnilium, Unununium, Ununbium......... to Ununoctium? Last Waterbender 10:23, June 3, 2010 (UTC)
 * I think that if we are going to post the periodic table on this Wiki, it should inlude these, too. Iron gollum 00:06, June 4, 2010 (UTC)

I couldn't transcribe many of the element names. Here's the list.

Hydrogen, Lithium, Carbon, Nitrogen, Oxygen, Fluorine, Sodium, Magnesium, Chlorine, Scanadium, Vanadium, Chromium, Bromine, Rubidium, Strontium, Yttrium, Molybdenum, Rhodium, Palladium, Cadmium, Iodine, Lanthanum, Praseodymium, Gadolinium, Terbium, Dysprosium, Erbium, Ytterbium, Hafnium, Tungsten, Osmium, Iridium, Platinum, Radon, Francium, Radium, Actinium, Protactinium, Plutonium, Einsteinium, Lawrencium, Dubnium, Meitnerium, Ununbium, Ununtrium, Ununquadium, Ununpentium, Ununhexium, Ununseptium, Ununoctium.

Can anyone give some ideas? I know it's a lot, they're mainly those that have d s in it or some illegal consonant groups that are still illegal when transcribed. Last Waterbender 09:20, June 4, 2010 (UTC)
 * I've been thinking about hydrogen. According to Wikipedia, the suffix "-gen" stems grom the Greek "genes", which means "creator". For "create", we have onta. An inanimate creator would be ontil. Then, we get nénontil or néndontil, where I like the latter more. Iron gollum 09:41, June 4, 2010 (UTC)
 * So oxygen and nitrogen should follow the same principle? Last Waterbender 10:03, June 4, 2010 (UTC)
 * I think so. Nitrogen is derived from salpeter, for which there is no Quenya word (what a surprise :) However, many languages of the Germanic family refer to nitrogen as "suffocating substance" (German: "Stickstoff"), as does Finnish. For "suffocate", we have quoro-, so nitrogen would probably be quorontil. Oxygen is more problematic. I didn't find any word for "acid" or even "sour". The Greek word "oxys" means "sharp" (seems like the inventors of scientific terms had similar trouble with Greek language). There, we have maica or aica, but I am not sure. I propose that you post this one in Requests for translation and we see what Bellenion would say.
 * About caesium and manganese, should we transcribe them according to the sound or the spelling? That is caesiumë versus cisiumë and manganisë versus manganis. Last Waterbender 10:16, June 4, 2010 (UTC)
 * We should transcribe them according to Latin (!) pronounciation. That means that caesium would be cesiumë, and manganese - mangan (or manganumë, but the former seems more natural to me). Iron gollum 10:43, June 4, 2010 (UTC)

I'm thinking of substituting platinum with mithril, is that OK? Last Waterbender 13:34, June 4, 2010 (UTC)
 * No, mithril has nothing to do with platinum. Actually, it is very much the opposite: Mithril is said to be hard, but light at the same time, while platinum is soft and heavy. Noone would really make weapons or armor of platinum. Iron gollum 14:32, June 4, 2010 (UTC)
 * Should we consider hydrogen a Group 1 element? Last Waterbender 17:01, June 4, 2010 (UTC)
 * Pardon me? Iron gollum 17:14, June 4, 2010 (UTC)
 * I mean I've seen some periodic tables that have hydrogen alone in the middle, not belonging to any Group. Last Waterbender 17:18, June 4, 2010 (UTC)
 * No, hydrogen is Group 1. Iron gollum 18:06, June 4, 2010 (UTC)
 * OK. Last Waterbender 15:13, June 6, 2010 (UTC)

Why "néndontil" (with long "e")? Telumendil 18:55, September 1, 2011 (UTC)
 * Nén is the word for "water", so hydrogen "néndontil" should have a long e :) Last Waterbender 19:22, September 1, 2011 (UTC)
 * The word nén has a stem nen- with short "e". Also the vowel can't be long before a consonant cluster. Telumendil 20:36, September 1, 2011 (UTC)
 * Oh right! How could I forget? In that case it really should just be nendontil. Thanks for spotting it! We can tell Iron gollum when he gets back :) Last Waterbender 21:38, September 1, 2011 (UTC)
 * Telumendil is right. I just renamed that page. Iron gollum 08:49, September 8, 2011 (UTC)
 * So, where from did you take -d- in the name? The stem is nen-, without D. --Ingwar ua 10:15, October 24, 2011 (UTC)
 * Hmm, interesting. The wordlist at Ardalambion clearly listed the stem as nen-, but nearly all words listed afterwards which are linked with water start with nend. I think that's why nendontil was suggested here in the first place... but now that you brought it up, nenontil seems the correct form. We need to ask Iron gollum for his opinion on this since he's the one who came up with the word. Last Waterbender 04:14, October 25, 2011 (UTC)

Etymology
H-m-m... Funny. I have conducted small researches on etymology. The word "chemistry" under one version goes back to the ancient Egyptian word "kmt" ("black land").

If to take our word "cemië" it is possible to return it to the elven word "cén/cemen" ("earth, ground, soil") from root KEM-. Telumendil 21:15, August 21, 2011 (UTC)