Neo-Quenya Wiki:Requests for translation

This page is intended for cases when an author cannot find a translation of a specific term in his dictionaries, nor create a meaningful paraphrase. Here, he or she can ask for help.

The rules:
 * 1) The author posts his request under a separate Level 2 headline which should contain only the requested term.
 * 2) Anyone can make translation proposal. Discussions are welcome.
 * 3) As soon as the request can be considered fulfilled, the respective section is to copy to the Talk page and delete here.
 * 4) In case the translation is a neologism, the author should add it to the respective List.

Gene

 * Yes... a biological term for "gene"... anyone can come up with a term for it?Bellenion 02:36, May 31, 2010 (UTC)
 * "Gene" is derived both from Greek genos (origin) and genesis (birth). We have nosta for birth, which is also similar to nossë (familiy, clan, kin; basically everything which is based upon bloodly -- and thus genetical -- relationship). For "originate", we have auta-, so probably we could write something like autil or so. However, I think that a construct based on the stem nos- would be better. Nosë with a single s maybe? Iron gollum 10:45, May 31, 2010 (UTC)

Element names
I'm trying to create a periodic table for the article on chemistry, but lots of the element names can't be transcribed. The list can be found on Cemië's talk page. Last Waterbender 10:26, June 4, 2010 (UTC)

On second thought, I'd better put the list here as well. There.

Hydrogen, Lithium, Carbon, Nitrogen, Oxygen, Fluorine, Sodium, Magnesium, Chlorine, Scanadium, Vanadium, Chromium, Bromine, Rubidium, Strontium, Yttrium, Molybdenum, Rhodium, Palladium, Cadmium, Iodine, Lanthanum, Praseodymium, Gadolinium, Terbium, Dysprosium, Erbium, Ytterbium, Hafnium, Tungsten, Osmium, Iridium, Platinum, Radon, Francium, Radium, Actinium, Protactinium, Plutonium, Einsteinium, Lawrencium, Dubnium, Meitnerium, Ununbium, Ununtrium, Ununquadium, Ununpentium, Ununhexium, Ununseptium, Ununoctium.

Oxygen
Does anyone here have an idea for oxygen? Last Waterbender 13:52, June 7, 2010 (UTC)
 * Let's take a look. Oxygen stems from Greek "oxys" (acid; literally sharp). It is ovbious that we have to come up with a word for "acid" before we go to "oxygen". For sharp (piercing), we have maica. Thus, "acid" might be maicorma ("sharp matter"), and "oxygen" - maicontil. Iron gollum 14:21, June 12, 2010 (UTC)

Element
I would first ask for a word for "element" itself. We have two synonyms for "base": sundo and talma. Is there any better word? Iron gollum 20:02, June 5, 2010 (UTC)
 * How about erma - matter? Last Waterbender 15:09, June 6, 2010 (UTC)
 * I would leave erma exactly for "matter" or "substance". We need something that reflects the elementary nature of elements :) Iron gollum 15:44, June 6, 2010 (UTC)
 * Then I think talma would be better. It seems reflect more of a sense of 'foundation' than sundo. Last Waterbender 16:07, June 6, 2010 (UTC)
 * Actually, how about sundocarmë, base-structure? Or would you rather leave the word for atom? Last Waterbender 16:15, June 6, 2010 (UTC)
 * I like talma more. Concerning "atom", haven't you proposed atomë? I would choose this one. Iron gollum 22:55, June 6, 2010 (UTC)
 * "atom" is easy to render in Quenya, and I propose *úristimë or *úcírimë (cf. Gk. atomos "uncut," from a- "not" + tomos "a cutting," from temnein "to cut")--Bellenion 02:21, June 7, 2010 (UTC)
 * I know, but do you think that a literal translation is necessary in this case? Most languages have imported the word as is. Iron gollum 08:56, June 7, 2010 (UTC)
 * So, is atomë OK? Last Waterbender 13:43, June 7, 2010 (UTC)
 * For me, definitely. Iron gollum 14:21, June 12, 2010 (UTC)

Untranslatable terms
Lithium — lisiumë (with a thule)

Fluorine — feluor

Sodium — natariumë (if someone could translate it - go on)

Magnesium — manganesiumë or manesiumë (I like the former more, even though it is quite similar to manganum)

Chlorine — celor

Scandium — secandiumë

Vanadium — vanadiumë

Chromium — coromë

Bromine — voromë

Rubidium — ruvidiumë

Strontium — storontiumë or sotorontiumë

Yttrium — ittiriumë

Molybdenum — molindenuë (or molivedenumë, but I like the other more)

Rhodium — rodiumë

Palladium — pallatiumë

Cadmium — catamiuë

Iodine — yotë

Lantanum — landan (or lanasan)

Praseoidymium — paraseoitimë or paraseoitimiumë

Gadolinium — catoliniumë

Terbium — terdiumë (or teretiumë)

Dysprosium — tisiporosiumë

Erbium — erwiumë

Ytterbium — itterwiumë

Hafnium — haveniumë

Tungsten — volveraniumë

Osmium — osomiumë

Iridium — iritiumë

Platinum — palatinë However, the name literally means "little silver", so maybe telpellë?

Radon — raton

Francium — faranciumë

Radium — ratiumë

Actinium — ahtiniumë

Protactinium — either noahtiniumë or porotahtiniumë

Plutonium — palutoniumë

Einsteinium — einsteinumë (derived from a familiy name, hence should be left untranscribed)

Lawrencium — lawrensiumë

Dubnium — tuviniumë

Meitnerium — meitneriumë

Ununbium — coperniciumë


 * What about ending -on instead of -umë? It is shorter and better fits the phonotactics. Ingwar ua 10:23, October 24, 2011 (UTC)
 * By this do you mean something like lision (lithium) and natarion (sodium)? Last Waterbender 15:34, October 24, 2011 (UTC)
 * Yes, I mean smth like lișion for lithium, aluminion for aluminium etc. Need smth radical for Na & K, though ;) -- Ingwar ua 19:33, October 24, 2011 (UTC)
 * For sodium and potassium, why don't we just derive the name from the Latin ones, like what's already done? That'll give natarion (Latin: natrium) and kalion (Latin: kalium). And actually, there's really no need to derive K from its Latin name, potassion looks fine to me :) Last Waterbender 03:56, October 25, 2011 (UTC)

Ununtrium, Ununquadium, Ununpentium, Ununhexium, Ununseptium, Ununoctium — two options - either transate or not translate the numbers. I am for the latter. Iron gollum 14:21, June 12, 2010 (UTC)


 * I think the provisional names may be either totally ignored, or translated like minwinnelion (113) etc. -- Ingwar ua 19:33, October 24, 2011 (UTC)

I thought a lone d is not allowed in Quenya. Last Waterbender 13:21, June 13, 2010 (UTC)


 * Right, I forgot it sometimes. This would give vanatiumë, ruvitiumë and rotiumë. Iron gollum 11:08, June 14, 2010 (UTC)
 * What's manganum? And why is iodine yotë? Last Waterbender 13:26, June 14, 2010 (UTC)
 * "Manganum" is manganese, sorry. Do you think that iodine should be iotë? I mean, the "i" in this word sounds rather like "y".

We don't need transcribe the elements derived from names, right? That would include Einsteinium, Nobelium, Seaborgium, Lawrencium etc. Then how about those derived from place names? If that is the case, actually a lot of the element names don't need to be transcribed. Last Waterbender 13:58, June 14, 2010 (UTC)
 * Hmm, a difficult question. Actually, toponims are very often being transcribed, and the more general the toponim is, the more often and severe the transcription in natural languages is. Take Polonium, for example. Marie Curie called it honouring her motherland, Poland. But the own Polish name of Poland is "Polska"; Polonium is derived from the Latin transcription "Polonia" - which is, moreover, not an "original", Roman-Empire-style Latin word, since Poland did not exist at those times. So I think that transcribing place-names is ok. Iron gollum 22:58, June 16, 2010 (UTC)
 * OK. Last Waterbender 17:14, June 17, 2010 (UTC)

To threaten
Any ideas? Iron gollum 21:49, June 26, 2010 (UTC)

What is it that you want to say? Is it possible to use terrorize instead? We have a word for ''terror, ossë. ''Last Waterbender 10:31, June 27, 2010 (UTC)


 * I mean "threaten someone not to do something." Ossë is ok, but maybe there is some better matching word? Iron gollum 13:12, June 27, 2010 (UTC)


 * I couldn't find another word for this, sadly. Let's wait for Bellenion's opinion. Last Waterbender 13:51, June 27, 2010 (UTC)

Sudden
I need a Quenya translation of "Dagor Bragollach", but I lack a word for "sudden". Maybe someone could derive a word from the Sindarin counterpart? Iron gollum 20:56, July 8, 2010 (UTC)

Um, I know this is a long time ago, do you still need the word? I'm just thinking, is it possible to use larca or alarca, 'rapid' instead? Last Waterbender 15:49, October 17, 2010 (UTC)

Attack & Kidnap
It would be best if I had these two words so to start writing the section on The Two Towers in the Heru i Million page. Last Waterbender 15:49, October 17, 2010 (UTC)
 * Attack: how about #pet- (strike) + allative?
 * Kidnap: we have pilu for "thief" and pilwë for "robbery", maybe we can derive *pil- with the meaning "to steal"? If you would like to point out a kidnap, you can add nassë (person) in front → *nassepil-. Iron gollum 07:31, October 18, 2010 (UTC)


 * For attack, do you mean something like petanna? Last Waterbender 08:11, October 18, 2010 (UTC)
 * No, both of my proposals are verbs. Do you look for nouns? Then it is *petë and *nassepilwë, respectively. Iron gollum 09:30, October 18, 2010 (UTC)
 * Oh, I get it now. Thanks. Last Waterbender 17:03, October 18, 2010 (UTC)

Request / Behest
I'm looking for a word for request or behest. So far I've found can- demand, but its meaning is a little different. Can anyone help? Last Waterbender 16:15, February 12, 2011 (UTC)
 * Hm, if you don't like can- then I can only propose maquet- + dative. Iron gollum 13:33, February 13, 2011 (UTC)
 * You mean maquet- for "ask"? That could work, thanks :) Actually I'm going to use this for the Aldamavori page. At the moment I'm using a different sentence structure to avoid the word, so I've written indómë "will" instead. Can you check out the page to see if the current version is OK? Last Waterbender 19:40, February 13, 2011 (UTC)
 * Yep, I think so. Iron gollum 22:47, February 18, 2011 (UTC)
 * OK. Last Waterbender 15:10, February 19, 2011 (UTC)

Appearance
I'm writng the page about the One Ring, and I need this for the header about its appearance. Any ideas? At the moment I'm using Ilcë, is this OK or is there a better word choice? Last Waterbender 09:05, April 27, 2011 (UTC)

HP Book Titles
I believe I did mention before that I'm writing an article on Harry Potter? Well I'm having some trouble translating the book titles, namely The Prisoner of Azkaban, Order of the Phoenix, and the Deathly Hallows, because there are no words in Quenya for prisoner, phoenix, deathly and hallows. Can anyone help? Last Waterbender 14:28, September 11, 2011 (UTC)
 * The Prisoner of Azkaban — we have mando for "prison", so I would opt for I Mandomardo Azkabano (mandomardo — prison-dweller).
 * Order of the Phoenix — we have heren attested for "order". The word "Phoenix" means "the reborn", but I don't think that we should translate it. Its etymology is tracked back to the Egyptian word "benu", so I would replace "ph" with "f" and "oe" with "e". Also, we cannot have an "x" at the end, so my final proposal is Fenixë. This gives us I Heren i Fenixeo.
 * I have, however, no idea at the moment how we could translate "Hallows". Iron gollum 18:44, September 11, 2011 (UTC)
 * I've actually come up with some preliminary translations for the three, but I think I'll use your translation for "prisoner" :) So far, about the Deathly Hallows I've changed it to "Tools of Death", which strictly speaking, is really what the Hallows were. If anyone can come up with a better idea for this then feel free to voice it out. About "phoenix", I'm fine with going for a transcription, but at the moment I've written "sornenáro", "eagle of fire", but I'm really not sure about this. Last Waterbender 20:03, September 11, 2011 (UTC)


 * Sornenáro sounds well, but in most natural European languages, the word "Phoenix" is not being translated. I would wait for Telumendil's opinion on that matter. "Tools" seems ok to me - it's not an exact translation, but if you're familiar with the plot (which I am not :) and think that it is an adequate substitution, let's keep to that. Anyway, there will still pass a lot of time until someone translates HP to Quenya and would be unhappy with the present title. Iron gollum 21:54, September 11, 2011 (UTC)

Modals - especially "to have to"
I'm working on a good translation of the LotR film quote "You only have to decide, what to do with the time that is given to you". So i'm looking for a feasible translation of the "have to"-part which is quite hard to do without modals. If you're able to find translation of all chemical elements you may also be able to find a solution for such an essential question? (And if my English sounds awkward to you, forgive me, I'm Swiss ;-)
 * How about the verb mauya-?
 * hmm more or less, but you'd have to use it as passive form "I am compelled to do". If there would have been a better fom i'd prefer that...


 * I solved the problem with an imperative: á martya er, tai meril care lúmenen, i na antaina len. ("Only destine, what you wish to do with the time, that is given to you".


 * I'm still wondering if there's probably a translation for "should". I had just to translate a longer text with the sentence "Because of that we should [...]" and I had to do a rather complex construction with an unattested subjunctive (as supposed here: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/elfling/message/29648) in the form "Because of that we would better do [...]". In the end there is a solution but I don't believe that this is proper Elvish... (Only imagine you'd speek like that ;-)


 * What about pol-?
 * I'm also working on this quote (tattoo), but I felt like  mauya - was a bit strong; I feel like the connotation is really more like 'All we are able to do is decide etc'. So i came up with  i erqua pollme care n'á cile i care lumenen ya n'á antaina ven, literally, 'the only thing we are able to do is decide what to do with the time that is given to us'. Bibliophibian (talk) 06:48, August 6, 2013 (UTC)

Almost
Anyone has a good word for it?

I don't think there is a good standalone word for "almost" in Quenya, especially since "almost" can have so many different meanings in different sentences :/ I think the best way to convey "almost" might be to paraphrase according to context. E.g. if you mean "almost" as in the temporal sense like "I'm almost there" or "I'm almost finished" then I did come across nuóra in Parma Eldalamberon edition 12 which is a noun meaning "near future". So I suppose "in the near future", núorassë, would suffice? So, "I will be there in the near future", nauvanyë tás núorassë, "I will finish in the near future", teluvanyë núorassë. But if you mean "almost" as in something like "I almost died" then maybe it would be better to paraphrase it as something like "I was not far from death" so something like anen lá haira fíriello. Actually, I think "not far from (???)", i.e. lá haira (???)-llo might be a good substitute for "almost" in most circumstances where the sentence requires "almost (adjective/verb)"? Say, "almost perfect", lá haira ilvaniello (ilvanië - perfection. Extraploated from ilvanya - perfect), "almost won", lá haira apairello (apairë - victory). Of course, that requires you to use the noun form of the word, which doesn't always already exist, but in my opinion it's far better practice to form a noun from an existing adjective/verb than to make up a whole new word for your sentences :) Last Waterbender (talk) 16:21, September 9, 2017 (UTC)